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Talk:Bardock
Bardock a Super Saiyan? Was bardock close to becoming Super Saiyan while fighting frieza in space? Since bardock had a power level close to 10,000 when facing frieza what did that mean? How come bardock did not go super saiyan to kill frieza after he throw his jolt Raiven attack to him? Do you think bardock was strong enough to be a super saiyan. :Like I explained to you earlier, Toriyama hadn't created the Super Saiyan transformation by the time Toei Animation produced Bardock: The Father of Goku, and even more simply put, the plots written by Toei's writers clearly just didn't call for Bardock, etc to be featured as Super Saiyans. In Bardock's case it's better this way anyways. The idea was to emphasize the helplessness of the Saiyan race, and especially Bardock who knew of their doom but could do nothing to change it; not to demythologize the legend of the Super Saiyan right then and there. That was the idea of Frieza's downfall on Namek. [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 17:36, 17 February 2009 (UTC) I have my own views about why Bardock wasn't a Super Saiyan. There is the obvious fact that the storyline didn't call for that to happen. The plot wouldn't have been the same with a Super Saiyan there. My main reason is that Bardock only had a power level of 10,00o which meant that he was stronger than Goku during the Saiyan saga. That fact tells me that since Goku's power level was around 9,000 during the Saiyan saga that Bardock with his power level being only 10,000 he was no where close to turning into a Super Saiyan. Plus I heard that Frieza's power level was around 1,000,000 and he was beaten badly by Super Saiyan Goku so I just say that Bardock was not powerful enough to become a Super Saiyan. If anyone disagrees please tell me so we can have a rather insightful conversation. Imortality is a curse. 17:48, 17 February 2009 (UTC) :If you want to get really into analysis of power levels: Bardock died with a power level of 10,000 more or less (it was never approximated to 10,000), while when Goku ascended to Super Saiyan for the first time, his power level was 150,000,000. I don't get where all these random and totally unfounded "Bardock was the first Super Saiyan" claims are coming from in the first place. [[User:Vixen Windstorm|'Storm']] [[User talk:Vixen Windstorm|'talk']] –''' [[User:Vixen Windstorm#Projects|'''projects]] 17:59, 17 February 2009 (UTC) ::That theory probably came from the fact that Frieza was paranoid of the Saiyans growing power and he destroyed them with Bardock being a rather powerful Saiyan who stood against him. It is rather obvious that Bardock was nowhere near tha level of power and it is always nice to have someone agree with you. Imortality is a curse. 19:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC) um but if you remember its not based on goku power level when he became super saiyan its based on the max level of power that saiyan thereself can get without abtainig super saiyan but no he is not an super saiyan--XIII-DARKNESS 23:04, 13 May 2009 (UTC) if bardock was still alive he would go up to super sayin 3 you dont have to be strong to turn super saiyan its awaken by rage 19:18, July 5, 2010 (UTC)Bardock's scar Fighting Style In all the DB Fighting games, everyone has a different moveset (of course, but thats not my point). But with Bardock, even though the movesets are different; his seems to put a lot of emphasis on a sort of angular karate fighting style. I don't remember the name but has anyone else noticed because I believe this is worth noting down atleast in the trivia. I do believe Bardock has a certain karate style (or if I've missed the mark, Kung Fu) Well if you notice bardock's fighting style is much like kakarot's. I believe bardock's uses a variety of diffrent martial arts. I can't remmber exactly though, sorry. (Osu~) Former Villain Should Bardock be considered a former villian, considering he used to slaughter innocent people,but changed his ways later on.Elementite 16:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC) No. It is just like Vegeta in the Namek Saga, he is against Frieza but he is still a bad guy! Vegerot 16:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC) ! But he did try to save the saiyan race, that has to count for somethingElementite 16:19, 17 May 2009 (UTC) He is still evil Maybe if he survived and came to Earth than maybe he would have become a good guy! Vegerot 16:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC) ! I'm pretty sure Vegeta killed more people than him, and he became a good guy.--Elementite 16:29, 17 May 2009 (UTC) But he had time Bardock lived a bad guy and died one. Think about if Vegeta wasnt brought back to life in the Frieza SAga then he would have lived a bad guy and died A bad guy! Vegerot 16:38, 17 May 2009 (UTC)!! He was sent to hell in the Buu Saga, that means he was still evil.Elementite 16:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC) You mean "He was seen to hell in the Buu Saga, that means he was still evil" :Err... WAS Vegeta sent to hell during the Buu saga? The only thing they actually implied in that scene was that Vegeta would most likely lose his body as soon as he died (even then, it doesn't necessarily mean that he went to Hell. Take Chi-Chi, Bulma, Videl and Dabura in the Fusion Saga. They didn't keep their bodies, yet they were in Heaven (though, by catholic traditions, it would be more similar to Purgatory, but still...), and besides which, considering how Piccolo not only kept his body upon death, but also went to train with King Kai, DESPITE having committed evil acts (or attempted to commit evil acts) during his life prior to death, whose to say that Vegeta, or heck, Bardock even, would be sent to hell? I say Bardock is a Good Guy. I mean he felt genuine sorrow when his friend died and anyway he did try to stop Freiza in the end. So I say it makes him Good.--Ice Kitsune 02:19, November 26, 2009 (UTC) If he is good he would have been wished back when they wished all of the people Freiza killed where alive right? Dude Bardock is so a former villain he changed his ways in the end he tried to kill freiza to save his planet to change the fate of evreyone so Bardock is a hero and went to heaven He just became a good guy right before he died and i guess they didn't count it I would say up to the point where the Kanassan power to see the future was given to Bardock, he was just as ruthless and evil as most other villians. After receiving this power, Bardock frantically tried to save the lives of his race, taking vengance on Friezas henchmen after killing his team mates and even standing up against Frieza himself. So I would say he died a good guy. PS. in BT3 he is shown as a good guy. Force9 11:47, June 8, 2010 (UTC) Force9 :Have you considered that the race in question was a very evil one whose occupation as a whole was wiping out the population of weaker species? I'm not saying Frieza was a good guy by wiping them out, but saving oneself and his fellow evil aliens hardly makes one a hero. 12:21, June 8, 2010 (UTC) that surely could be the case, but i firmly belief that if he had defeated Frieza, he would have been the new ruler of the Saiyan race, until Vegetas return of course. Non the less I am sure that he would have altered his ways to become or be a defender of good. Along with this if your statement is true, Goku should also be evil, barring the fact that he bumped his head while he was a small boy. Basically within DBZ there is a few occurrences where evil characters changed their ways, Piccolo, Vegeta, etc are all examples of this. Force9 12:30, June 8, 2010 (UTC) Force9 :Everyone always assumes saiyans are evil because they destroy weaker races. Hm....here is the thing... FRIEZA makes them. It's not right to just say they are evil because they are being forced. Even though the saiyans joined World Trade Organization for the reason to fight it doesn't make them evil. Bardock was doing his job, like everyone else does. Evil is like Vegeta who killed his injuries comrade. Bardock (in my opinion) was never a "evil" character. Neither do I think any saiyan was during that time period. Osu 1:32 eastern central June 8, 2010 I agree, Bardock did as he was told. Frieza ruled the saiyans with fear. even Vegeta knew that the power of Frieza is to big to take on which created a feeling of fear. In the Frieza saga this is also evident in Vegetas behaviour to the different form of Frieza. Force9 04:22, June 9, 2010 (UTC) Force9 :It could be the case that Saiyans are innately good, but on the other hand they do all seem to rather enjoy killing innocents at nearly every shown scene of them doing so, barring serious head injuries of course : P In any case, it's a matter of opinion, so we choose not to classify Bardock either way, and rather to state the facts, and leave the opinions to each reader. 04:37, June 9, 2010 (UTC) :That is fair because both sides of the argument does stand its ground. Force9 04:56, June 9, 2010 (UTC) Force9 Power level Bardock's power level is mentioned in several places as being estimated at 10,000 by scientists afeter healing. But I can't find this reference. There used to be an image reference in this article, but the actual link to the image is not working, probably because it was deleted. In the remastered English dub of the special, the scientists mention that he keeps on getting stronger and might surpass King Vegeta, but they never mention the "10,000" figure. Could someone tell me exactly where does this come from?Sega381 17:39, 15 August 2009 (UTC) Infobox Image The image in the infobox has changed twice over the past week and a half. Leave it with this one. don't change it again --Silver Sinspawn 05:53, February 5, 2010 (UTC) :It may be your opinion that this one is good, but it is up to the community at large to decide if it should be changed. 06:26, February 5, 2010 (UTC) could Bardock still be alive? If Bardock was a good guy he would have been wished back when they wished everyone that Freiza killed where alive : Not quite. Shenron explained that he only had the power to bring back those killed in the past year. Bardock and the rest of the saiyans were killed many years before. Also, that wish made no mention of good guys vs bad guys. It brought everyone killed by Frieza and his direct minions back. 04:35, April 19, 2010 (UTC) Could Goku meet Bardock in other world after he dies? Could Goku meet Bardock in other world after he dies? : Likely no, as Bardock would not be given his body back as Goku is. 17:57, April 20, 2010 (UTC) What about chi-chi, Bulma, and videl? they got the top of their bodies back. : Yes, but they went to the other world equivalent of heaven. It is unclear whether all people that go to heaven get their bodies back, or that Bardock went to heaven at all. He wasn't nearly powerful enough to retain his body like Goku and the other Z Fighters did if he didn't go to heaven and was stuck in Hell. Then Goku would never meet him as he'd be just another ghost. 02:48, April 21, 2010 (UTC) He did do a good deed by trying to save his people so maybe he went to heaven. : Yeah, it's possible, we just don't know. And then there's the fact that Goku never went to Heaven. He stayed in the "limbo" parts of Other World that includes the Kai planets and Snake Way. So unless he made another trip to Other World and went to Heaven for some reason, or Bardock retained his body in Hell and Goku went there to quell uprisings or something, they wouldn't meet. 03:44, April 21, 2010 (UTC) it would be cool if they made a episode where they met Burst limit When bardock interacts with raditz as his partner in VS mode, he treats Raditz like Vegeta treats Trunks with an prideful and ruthless humor, that could go on your trivia. Trivia 10x Kamehameha, I know you are part of this places law enforcement, but do you actually check what is changed before you undo it? Bardock is the only member of his team with an unchanged name. I even provided a source. Bardock was Bardock, Selypa (Fasha) was Korn, Totapo (Borgos) was Jaga, Panbukin (Shugesh) was Pumbkin and Toma (Tora) was Tomah. Bardock being the only one without a single change, trivia needs to be right if it's to be included at all.The Devils Corpse 02:37, July 1, 2010 (UTC) :Actually it was Burdock, and there's no need to insult others here. 02:55, July 1, 2010 (UTC) I'm sorry if you found that insulting, but it's not. It's a blunt and valid question, straight to the point. Yet once again you changed the trivia back to the wrong statement, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. Bardocks name has remained unchanged, while the others have seen some sort of alteration from their time at Nakatsuru Katsuyoshi's hands and into Toriyama Akira's. Bardocks name was not originally Burdock, it is an alternate transliteration of the name, thus the SAME name. Hence my alteration to the trivia is correct. I assume you'll find this next part insulting too, but I'm just being honest. It's no wonder this place gets such a bad wrap for having inaccurate information. When you try to add the right info, source and all, it gets replaced with the previous inaccuracies. That seems to do more harm than good.The Devils Corpse 03:18, July 1, 2010 (UTC) :You seem to have been misinformed on several counts. It is indeed insulting to ask an admin of a wikia website if he "actually check(s) what is changed before you undo it." I ask you a second time not to insult any users on this site, now that you have been educated as to what that may entail. The reason I changed the trivia back is because the proper procedure when an edit is disputed is to revert the article to its original state, and discuss the issue on that article's talk page. As to the issue here, only the member's new names are shown in those sketches, which are obviously irrelevant. As to the site having a "bad wrap," that seems wholly unfounded, as we are the most comprehensive source of Dragon Ball information in the world, and each week our site is visited thousands of times (tracked electronically). 03:52, July 1, 2010 (UTC) Not misinformed, I just treat you like a normal person. You may hold a slight amount of power on a wikia, but you are by no means more important than anyone else in the community, as that is what defines a site. Without the community the site would be an electronic paperweight, so to speak. As for the source I provided, you obviously didn't look over it thoroughly. The Son Goku Densetsu image clearly provides the original names given by Nakatsuru, while the Daizenshu 6 image provides Toriyama's take on them. This base information as well the actual changes are even noted within the article if you would have read it, which I assume you didn't or this wouldn't have to be discussed. You're statement seems biased,let alone presumptuous. Do you actually monitor all other Dragon Ball information website's traffic? Do you check sites in alternate languages? Do you actually personally check all the other competition to determine if you actually contain more content, let alone correct content from the source material? The fact that Freeza's name is still headlining the article with Funimation's corrupted version seems proof enough. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust someone else to give me my money from a teller at my bank, I want the cash right from the source.The Devils Corpse 04:26, July 1, 2010 (UTC) :The Wiki is English, so the mods chose to use their Funimation renderings, since most of the people USING this site would mostly know the Funimation names. That last part was very unneeded, and doesn't help with your argument. I know Bardock's name was unchanged, but watching this fight, you're starting to fall into the "I'm tired, so I'm just going to start being a jerk" If you're going to keep arguing for what's right, then please stay respectable and don't add things to the end of your messages that really seems to put a bad cloud over whatever intelligent things you had to say. I do also suggest talking to other Mods like Nonotail or SSJGoku93 or PrinceZarbon about this as well. But again, don't expect everyone to know "Umigame" or "Jinzōningen" :) Supersaiyanbatman 04:32, July 1, 2010 (UTC) But that's just it, Viz's manga should be the English source at the very least if using the site is English so lets use English names argument. The manga is the original work and should be the basis for all information, and only expand out from that when needed. You don't have to use the Romanji, as the words do have accurate translations. Umigame can easily be Sea Turtle (though its sort of a name and shouldn't be translated) and Jinzoningen can easily be Artificial Humans. The corruption of the latter with the term android implies that they are all mechanical based, while 8, 17, and 18 are clearly cyborgs with a human base. I know Jinzoningen CAN mean android, but its clearly not the correct choice in this case.The Devils Corpse 05:10, July 1, 2010 (UTC) :The problem there, is that not EVERYONE reads the Manga. The Majority of people who have gone here have not read the manga, and have only seen the English Dub of the Anime. You're more likely to find more people who've seen the Anime dub than have read the Manga. :THAT is why we use the Funimation Dub names, and not Viz's translation. It makes NO sense to use Viz when you're more likely to find more people who've seen the dub than read their translated Manga. Supersaiyanbatman 05:13, July 1, 2010 (UTC) Thanks for the mediation, Supersaiyanbatman. The Devils Corpse, two things. First, if you want to edit on a website, it is integral to know that website's policies, which I observe you have not taken the time to do. Please read our Manual of Style, and you will gain insight into how things work here, including our policy on character names. After much thought, the community decided to title the articles according to the anime names, since this makes the pages easier to find for the vast majority of our readers. By reading an article, you'll notice that we do list the manga names as well. Second, you have posted links which do not work, making it impossible for me to read them at all, so try and reserve your side comments about thoroughness. 05:18, July 1, 2010 (UTC) : No problem. The links he posted were here and Here However, the thing that gets me is trusting Daizex blindly seems just as bad as trusting us blindly, so I don't really get where the argument with that is. Supersaiyanbatman 05:28, July 1, 2010 (UTC) A good point indeed. Trusting the word of a few people you've never met and who don't care what you think over a large community with which you are a part certainly seems strange. But then again it's quite clear which I've found to be more reliable. 05:56, July 1, 2010 (UTC) Future Future Gohan is mentioned but Future Goku isn't? That's unfair. :V 08:39, August 11, 2010 (UTC)